So, I was thinking about the budget worksheet we did in class. The title on the worksheet was something like working to stay poor...but we didn't really talk about what I think of when I consider that statement. Then, I attended a sociology class and they were talking about economic status and the poor as well...which was weird. Someone in the class posed the question that some people are trying to stay poor so they can get a check each month. He even went to high school with people who said they couldn't wait to turn 18 and receive their check in the mail. Now, although the kid had a negative spin on that towards poor people...he brings up a good point. The professor said that there has been no evidence or studies that proved people try to stay poor. I beg to differ. And this is why:
Now, I don't know if I'm just thinking of a different issue..but from experience, I think that the financial aid and federal aid is set up so that people have to try to stay poor. For example, in my family, my mom is a full time mom and my dad has been unemployed for 6 years. We are surviving because my parents are the world's best savers when the money was good. For last year, when we were applying for financial aid, we put 0 as our income. Add to that the fact that I'm a RA, and I was basically getting paid to come to school. Not only did my parents not have to pay anything, but I got checks in the mail for a lot of money. For this year, my dad is still unemployed, but he got some freelance work to get a few grand. So we didn't get to put 0 as our income...and as a result we got 0 financial aid. But we are still unemployed and are beginning to struggle. But since we could put a few grand for our annual income AND being a RA hurts me this time, because then room and board is paid for...so we get nothing from aid. The same thing occurs for any kind of aid people get. The moment they cross over into another category..so from drowning to gasping for air basically...their aid decreases tremedously. So why try and get a slightly better job? Why even look? Why try? I just don't understand how that system can possible help anyone. Am I not understanding it properly? What do you all think? cause just letting you know...I'm PISSED. Sorry for the language Greg.
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I completely agree with you on the fact that financial aid and federal aid are setup so that people have to try to stay poor. As much as we want to succeed and have great paying jobs and make all this money, as a full time college student we cant. If we report that we make all of this money then we don't get aid even though we actually need it. And I absolutely hate the fact that I can't file independent and they want to tell you what your EFC is going to be when you know that your not recieving a dime from either of your parents. I have been doing everything for myself since I got to ISU so just because a sheet of paper is telling me what my EFC is going to be doesn't mean its true. Even though I don't have a choice at the moment about being poor, I couldn't change it right now if I wanted to because I still need assistance with school, so I have to stay poor. I know to many others in the same situation, even people whose parent(s) are retired but they still have to much money. As I once heard before, the richer get richer and the poorer get poorer. Like Sarah stated, once you cross over into another category, even slightly things change and usually for the worse. If anybody is excited about the cost of minimum wage going up, then don't be because the cost of living is also on the rise. So you will still be at the same level you are at now no matter how much bigger your checks look. Poor people will still be poor and it will still be hard to get ahead.
As to the question of whether people try to "stay poor" so they can a TANF check each month, I agree with your sociology professor: there's no research I know of that indicates that's the case. Of course, we can always come up with anecdotal evidence--individual instances where a person may try to "play" the system. But in the vast majority of cases, people don't want to depend on--and subsist on--government assistance. As Sue Books points out in her piece, no one lives luxuriously or even comfortably from welfare checks. And if you doubt that, check out the dollar amounts Illinois provides for a single parent with two kids. It's not much.
It's difficult for me to comment on the financial aid situation--at least on the specifics of your individual experiences. A family shouldn't go from getting significant aid to getting none at all when their income increases only by a couple thousand dollars, so if that's what happened, it certainly seems like a disincentive to do better or make more money. But as I said, it's hard to comment without knowing all the specifics.
In general, though, I think the bigger picture of that problem is that the cost of higher education has become outrageous for all but the wealthy. Almost all families need some sort of aid or loans to finance their kids' education, but the shame of it is that it doesn't have to be the way. It goes back to funding priorities: the hundreds of billions of dollars that have been spent on the Iraq war, for example, could put a lot of young people through school.
Sarah, I feel your pain. For the last four years, I have been supporting myself and putting myself through school, yet FAFSA refuses to recognize me as an "independent" simply because of my age and a few other dumb questions. Then, I end up having to provide the financial status of my father (my parents are divorced). Even though my dad was unemployed for over half of the past year, and my EFC is estimated below $900, I do not receive financial aid that reflects this. Continually, I have to apply for loans that I will have to pay back with interest even though some stupid formula KNOWS I cannot afford school. I have never understood why students with EFCs that are significantly lower than the cost of higher ed do not receieve more grants, scholarships, and loans without interest payments.
I agree with Greg, a huge problem is that the cost of higher ed has gone through the roof. It's a shame that the war budget continues to get bigger while the education budget gets smaller.
To relate to the idea of working to stay poor, I am frustrated by this concept based on what I have seen of people. I previously worked with a 20-something year old male, Kevin. He repeatedly had to tell my boss to only schedule him X (I can't remember the amount, I think it was 20) amount of hours per week; if he exceeded that amount, he would no longer receive his unemployment check. UNEMPLOYMENT CHECK?! The guy could very well have a full time job at my store (we needed the help, and he was good at his job), but he chose to only work X hours and receive unemployment checks.
On the other hand, I have seen my father struggle so hard to put his life back together after the death of his mother which cost him his full-time and part-time jobs. Because he had saved some money in a retirement account when he was employed, he was unable to receive any federal assistance. A 50 year old man with 2 children, a high school dropout, and little work experience outside of a printing factory and a video store has a HARD time finding a job nowadays. I saw this man, my father, apply for job after job after job. He has since picked up a part-time job at another video store, but it still does not provide him enough money to move out of his sister's house or pay most of his bills.
So I do not have much more to say, but I wanted to offer two annecdotal (sp?) pieces about the "working to stay poor" idea.
I completely agree with everyone on the cost of higher education and good higher education is ridiculously expensive. My family is not poor and my family is not rich. When my brother started college in 2003 my parents together were making good money, but after my mother decided that she wanted to go back to teacher elementary school she took a drastic pay cut some 20 G's. Cedric (my brothers) tutition is about $3,000 dollars less than mine but the government claims that my family should be able to ocntribute more now than in 2003. Crazy ain't it? Now quick story, I have a really good friend from high school that attends University of Illinois-Champaign. He is a very intelligent person, but not smart enough to earn enough scholarships to pay his tutition. His parents were not rich but rich but he recieved a little financial aid. After one year his father received a promotion and pay raise so EFC raised drastically and he lost the financial aid he recieved the previous year. The EFC was still too high for his pops to pay, so he had to do what ever it took to pay that tutition. Eventually, he got caught up with some folks selling weed to pay their tutition. He was caught and due to lack of funds he is another black male with a record!!
I could not agree more with the fact that you must stay poor to recieve financial aid. There has been another side that I have experienced on this. My mom became a single parent when I was eight. When I got to high school a lot of kids at my school recieved aid from the school in paying for things such as lunches and registration fees because of their parents income. My mom bounced around from job to job a lot and there were a lot of long periods of time that she did not even have a job. Did I get any aid from the school? Nope. I did not understand how my mom was trying to support three children on her own without a job and I could not even get free lunch at school.
When it came to college the same thing happened. I could not get any financial aid and my mom did not have a job at all at the time. I guess I will never understand how poor you have to be to even get aid for school.
I also agree with all of you. I also don't recieve as much aid as I think I should. I mean I know everyone says that but it is ridiculous. I mean in order to pay for things I work massive amounts of hours during the summer, sometimes like 70 hours one week alone. But because I'm working and getting some money it doesn't do any good for me in the long run and that money I am getting doesn't even get me that far anyways. And my mom is also a single parent too. I feel like you almost have to "stay poor" in a way to get any aid these days.
And the cost of education has gone up so much that sometimes I'm almost afraid to think of how much it is going to be when we have kids of our own! There probably is a whole lot more to financial aid that we don't undertsand because the system simply seems ridiculous when it comes down to how much money certain families should get.
Wow--when I think about the issue of financial aid, in any regard, I have a lot that goes through my head. Mainly because of the different types of aid people can receive. I do agree that there are bad barriers that keep people from receiving aid they maybe should be getting.
I'm in the same boat as it sounds like a lot of us. My parents don't make enough to pay for school, but make too much to get much aid. I have been fortunate enough to get 1 very small amount of money though. But anything helps. Even though I did receive this small amount, I still think the way the system is set up is not the most benefitial to most citizens. Although it DOES help those who absolutely need the most aid, it does NOT help those who are in between. And I guess, with Sarah's situation, and I'm sure others, the system does not always help those who make minimal salary.
I don't really know if I'm making a point with this, I'm trying to think it out before writing, but ahh...
Basically, I know that there is no concrete evidence stating that the system tries to make people stay poor, but it seems that in a way it is true. I don't think the government is out to make people stay poor, but at the same time, it seems that one has to be destitute to receive aid. It seems that the amounts given may not always be as great as they appear to be either. I don't know facts, so this is just thoughts from stories heard or situations looked at. To really sum up my thoughts on the academic financial aid system, I think the working middle class hurt the most.
Domestic financial aid (I am referring to receiving checks every month), I think is somewhat the same story but a little different. I still think that there are the barriers for the different classes and to receive aid, but I disagree that people always necessarily want to stay poor just to receive a check. I've never been in this situation so I do not know for sure, but I would think that people are more inclined to get away from being poor when it is their whole life (living conditions, possessions) and "not just education". The reason I place this in quotes is because some people do not look at education as important as others do. People may, in my opinion, be more inclined to make more money and get away from receiving financial aid domestically moreso than they would in respects of academics.
But this all then ties together and if the person pulls himself away from domestic financial aid and is making money, then decides to go to school, he will most likely be presented with trouble in receiving academic financial aid. In which case, I think it is all kind of a vicious circle through the classes and with the different types of aid. And I believe there needs to be some serious time taken by officials to look at the current systems and try to figure out some improvements.
wow-I hope that made sense....It made sense to me, but I am me! Sorry if it is a bit confusing.
I agree with Sarah, because through my own eyes I have seen how the system works. I do think that people do try to stay poor to receive money from the government. About 2 years ago my friend had a baby and I remember her saying she had to make it look like she was trying to find a job to continue receiving her checks. All she had to do was fill out a few job applications here and there and the money would come. Who wouldn’t want to receive free money just for looking like you are trying to find a job? I do believe there is evidence that people are trying to stay poor. I think the system needs to be changed. For example, what if the government matched what you make at your job? I think that would push people to try and make more money or at least get a job. But then again I can see how it could be difficult because there are not always jobs available. I think Sarah’s example of her own experiences really proves that the system of financial aid is really messed up.
Wow Pippi, you have definitely stirred up some controversy with this post. But, I couldn't agree with you more. That sucks with what is happening to you, and I know the feeling...I'm hearing ya.
When I was doing that worksheet in class, I couldn't help but to think of my mother and all that she has to do in a month to get by. Take this scenario for example, and this is true, for it's my own mother. God love her, she is stronger then I think that I will ever know. My mother is a 55, white, unemployed and suffers from a slue of medical problems. (Man, I hope she never sees this.) She is overweight, she has crippling and debilitating arthritis in her knees that prevents her from any kind of comfortable position. Sitting too long put her in pain, and laying for too long is even worse. She has P.A.D, (peripheral Artery Disease), and the list goes on and on. Physically, my mother can't work, she has no insurance, no income. Yet, even with all of that, she still by the grace of her bog heart has taken in my Great-Great Aunt who is 95 and has Alzheimer's and dementia. Craziness, I know, but she did it. Now, yes, my mother does get my Aunt's Social Security check to help pay for my aunt's needs : food, her medicine, diapers, etc, etc. That check barely takes care of that. And, yes that state does help my mom here and there, but barely. She was turn down twice for insurance because of my Great-Great Aunt's $900 check! Bullshit, I know!! (sorry Greg for the language!) My mother cannot afford to pay my tuition for this year and the next...she's struggling. Now, same situation with Pippi my Mom is going through. When I did financial aid, and using my Mom's barely there income, I would get money-my Mom got a small part time job, and we lost it too. That sucks right there.
I bet you're thinking, well, where's the Dad in this picture? My Dad does pay for a small portion of my tuition. With me, like Pippi, being an RA, and being a Golden Apple,my balance is very low, but there is still a balance. Now, what makes this situation even more crazy is that, I can't use my Mom's income for my FAFSA-I have to use my Dad because of the child support that he gave to us--so, with his nice income, the government gives me 0! So, I don't know what to do here? I love my Dad and he helps with certain things, but I feel that I should take advantage of my Mom's situation. I know that sounds bad, but my Mom has tried to get out of that bracket, but it's not working.
I feel like I, even now, have to still side between my parents. Like, I have to take sides. That's not fair! Not fair at all, but that is what this system is all about, what side, and what bracket that you qualify in.
Alright, I'm done!
I have to agree. Unfortunately, it does seem like our governments federal aid systems do give people the unspoken encouragement to stay poor. I only say this because on some of the personal situations I have been in.
First of all, before I was adopted and in foster care, my biological parents lived off of unemployment and with my mother on disability and three children to support they got a hefty amount, not to mislead you to say that it is good living but considering they were getting money for not working it was good. My father and now my oldest sister learned how to work the system. They will get a job and work till they got fired or lazy. They would collect unemployment until their time ran out and then they would repeat the process. Now, I hope im clear in stating that I do not think that all people who are unemployment do this but the fact is some do. Why work when the government will take care of you.
Also, my adopted mother is on disability. However, she does work and has a good job but her health is bad and continually takes a heavy toll on her body often causing her to spend weeks at a time in the hospital. This would all be deal able but every now and then Social Security will give her a hard time. For instance, she is fighting to keep her Social Security check but they feel that she does not deserve it now. They came to this conclusion because in July of last year she made $8 more than she is allowed to make under the rules of disability enacted by our government. With out her disability my family could not make it. We constantly are burdened by medical bills plus I am in college and we all are aware of how much money school costs. Therefore, I do pay for my entire college which I do think is a good thing but my parents always are burdened by the fact that they know I need money to live on and they do not have any to give me. We make it but, my mom is already only able to earn a certain income but it is not much. If they take it away then we will definitely not make it. Poor we will remain. But, even worse we make just enough to get no financial aid too. Again, the government keeps us poor and struggling alone with many of people of this nation.
I think that everyone's input on this topic was very interesting, and I am right beside you with financial aid...BUT I think I am looking at this from a very different approach.
I understand the difficulties of financial aid, and trying to survive as a poor college student, but there is a BIG difference in trying to raise a family on a limited or lack of income. You are looking at this from the perspective of the student (which is fine), but from the position of an individual who has to be responsible for themselves and their families...the problems become an issue of survival. Many of these individuals do not have a very good education (like we are getting now), a dorm room or apartment with heat, good cable, convenient dining, health insurance- and they don't have it for their kids either! So, by relating the title "working to stay poor" to this spin, families are working day to day to get by from day to day. The assistance they receive barely cuts it (our excercise in class allowed us to see a small glimpse of the struggle with that). I don't think our class had to go back home that night and REALLY do what we did in class- for right now we have places to live, things to eat, jobs that pay, and people to help us (whether we like to think about that or not). I know that there is struggle, but if you get your nails done, go to the movies, eat out at restaurants, drink, smoke, party...you have a lot more choices than they do.
Imagine living like you do now with an additional two mouths to feed...get my drift? I'm glad that there are areas where we can relate our experiences, but on the other hand we cannot set them as equal experiences. I felt that the posts became more about that than on the issue of poverty.
I hope I wasn't insulting you, and I am not trying to make judgements...I am only offering my perspective.
Pippi, this is a great topic. Let me start off by saying that I'm a lucky to be able to go to school like many people. If it weren't for scholarships and financial aid, I wouldn't be here. My father is the only one who is paying for my college, so he is the only one we put on the FASFA, because of his income alone I am lucky enough to receive financial aid. It is always such a crunch to get the FASFA in by March 1st in order to make priority deadline; we need all of the Financial Aid we can get. But I want to take a new spin on this, what about scholarships? I am working really hard right now to do a good job on applying for scholarships for next year so I will be able to go to school. But the common question on many of the scholarships is “how much aid/scholarships will you be receiving next year”. When it comes to that part, I always wonder what light they look at it in. Do these organizations and companies look at people who have applied for numerous scholarships and think, good job they really need the financial help. Or do they take it as, they seem to have things under control and this person doesn’t need it as much as some others do. When it comes to a part like that on an application part of me always wants to lie, although I don't. I just don’t want to be looked down at like I don’t need the help, because I do. If it weren’t for these scholarships and financial aid it would be impossible for me to be in school. I know that financial info is a huge part of many scholarships and I’m not saying that that is not considered. I guess I just wanted to share my anxiety about applying for scholarships and being able to afford to go to school next year.
I think that this is an issue that all college kids face, especially if they are trying to pay for their education on their own. It is such a vicious cycle to me. It is so important to get a college education because you need the degree in order to work and in order to make a substantial amount of money. On the other hand, the expense at which you have to pay to go to college is so extreme that some can't afford it, or if they can, most are paying back the money in loans after they graduate. To me this all seems so ridiculous. I can't believe how much a college education costs, and it was really great to see that there is something that is trying to be done. Signing the flyer that Shannon sent around last class made me feel that in the future there might be something done about the cost and funding of education.
I also need financial aid and have had trouble getting it because of a few circumstances. My mom has been a single mother with 2 kids for many years. She has struggled to be able to afford a lot of things and it really surprised me when we weren't going to be awarded any financial aid at all. At the time I entered college, my brother was also finishing his last year and a half at ISU so my mom had 2 kids in college that she had to pay for. She has a full time job and makes pretty good money, but the reason we weren't going to get financial aid is because she worked a TON of overtime and was $500 over the minimun amount for financial aid. It really upset me because I saw my mom in a state where she was going to have to struggle just to get her kids through college. At this point everything is worked out and I had to take out a loan to pay back after i graduate. Sometimes i think that it is so pointless is some aspects because the salary that we will make the first three years of our professional career will all be going to paying for our education. It is definitely worth it, but it just seems so ironic!
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